piterpcim
Yes, they left Lipnica (more exactly, Lipnica Muriowana) at 19.1. There was a fierce battle at Muchowka hill.
Result: 19 German soldiers buried in several graves. Soviets lost ca. 80. A soldier was buried nearby with a dogtag (according to the Polish list from 1945) 15 A - Stab / I.R.238. A strangely low number for me - maybe he was an officer? (I.R.238 was replaced by St.R.14 in 1941).
"Konski Galizien" is also written in Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge e.V. database.
I meant Russians have their own lists of KIA or missing soldiers, which were published in the web here
www.obd-memorial.ru . I found it very useful finding where are the certain soldiers buried, as well as some details about their units.
If the German lists were accessible, there was an opportunity to do the same. A pity that Volksbund searcher doesn't allow to search via death place and doesn't show the units... I spent months to search the names of ca. 60 (!) soldiers killed nearby in Polish campaign of 1939. This makes many guys disappointed with researching the German war graves.
Lord*
Hello Piotr,
a lot of information from your side
What you have written is in a very interesting way. Were other dogtags still found among the other 18 soldiers?
I am sure the specialists here can find name and status of this soldier.
Unfortunately in Germany we havent such list. The WAST can give you such information but you have to apply directly and you have to have the name of soldier, birthday and the reason why do you want such information. Favored applications is to search relatives.
regards
Markus
piterpcim
a lot of information from your side
Yes, I know
Sorry, no information about these 18 soldiers. This one is 19th - he was buried 2 km nortn of Muchowka.
I know these data I mentioned are in WASt.
I don't think that any of local researchers were so desperated to request the information about, let's say, a dozen of soldiers. Too much problems...
But Volksbund has the information about death place in their database. I wonder, why it is not possible to search with death place (Todesort) as a keyword?
Lord*
what a shame.
I've been going in circles.
Sorry I do not know why we can not search with death place. We should ask the expert.
Maybe it would be a good way to translate previous conversation in German language to give other users the possibility to join in discussion.
Olivia S.
| Zitat: |
Original von piterpcim
I wonder, why it is not possible to search with death place (Todesort) as a keyword? |
Hi!
The Volksbund once had the option to look for the death places or gravesites online. To cancel that service was probably one of the best ideas the Volksbund ever had. It keeps black diggers away from the soldier's graves. It is very hard now to find out how many people and which soldiers are lying at one place.
Of course this is very unfavorable for those who have honest intentions, but I think some (if not even most) of us prefer the new Volksbund-online-search anyhow because it might help stopping crime.
best regards
Olivia
piterpcim
Olivia, thank you for explanation.
Well, my point of view is a point of view of a history researcher.
I know that black diggers are a serious problem. That's why we feel awfully when we find a new information about a grave - we never mark it with a cross, we know it will be better for the buried soldiers...
But cancelling the searching option won't keep black diggers away from the soldier's graves. It may only help to - in my opinion, very slightly - reduce these dealings.
The database, giving in fact a VERY general information, may be a hint where to search the graves. But there would be still much to do to locate it. Trying to find such place, having only the name of the town, is like a searching the needle in a haystack (apologize for such comparison).
The other side of the coin is, that you are irrevocably loosing information about war graves. Many of them are known only by very few witnesses - old people who know where the grave is, and sometimes even personally buried the soldiers. They are dying - and the information will be lost with them. Without any help, we are finding them only accidentally...
The situation is a standoff.
Lord*
| Zitat: |
Original von piterpcim
The best way thay could do, is to contact you with any local history enthusiast. If he/she has time and will be interested in WW2 period, yes, he/she surely will help you. |
Do you give me a tip how can I find someone?
regards
Markus
piterpcim
Unfortunateny, I don't know any person from Zakliczyn area.
I live too far away to make a field research, and never studied a war history of this area in detail.
I'll send you a tip as a PM.
Lord*
Hallo und guten Abend,
heute kam Anwort von der WASt.
Ich hab mal versucht das Schreiben unten an zu hängen. Hoffe das hat geklappt. Dateien waren etwas groß.
Zu den neuen Erkenntnissen
Nummer der Erkennungsmarke liegt nun vor: -605-I.Pi.E.Kp.34 (Infantrie-Pionier-Ersatz-Kompanie 34, Koblenz
Einsatzort an der Leningrader Front ist neu.
Das er verwundet wurde war auch noch nicht bekannt.
Seite 2 des Schreibens heißt wohl: Homburg/Saar
Jetzt haben wir einen anderen Vermisstenort: Gromnik
Werd mir am WE mal die Karte anschauen.
Lord*
hier nocheinmal das Schreiben der WASt komprimiert